BasicsHome and Search
Photos of people
Name indexes incl WW1
Lists, Documents, News
PropertiesProperties: High Street
Properties: non-High Street
Old Brentford Tithe
1909/10 Valuation Index
Can You Help?Seeking...
Roads OffA-Z list
Turner the Artist
Queen Victoria 1840
80 High Street
Clitherow of Boston House
Four Croxford Brothers
Sources & MoreThey Said
Home and Search
Brentford Families - DobsonJohn Bayliss wrote in June 2016 regarding the details on this website for 54 High Street, on the corner of Cage (later Ferry) Square: Thomas Dobson is listed here as a labourer aged 19 in 1841; a fishmonger aged 36 in 1851; a fishmonger aged 50 in 1861.. He wrote 'Implausible as it seems ... I do not believe that Thomas the labourer aged 19 was the same Thomas as the fishmonger on the 1851 & 1861 censuses'.
His argument follows and describes two families - the first of labourers, the second of fishmongers.
Dobson family, labourersThe 1841 census entry shows Thomas, a labourer, lived in a household headed by Samuel Wood, linen draper, and his surname was recorded as Dobson. He was born outside Middlesex. The previous entry, Cage Square and possibly adjoining the Wood's home, was a household of two: Isaac Dobson, 30, labourer and Elizabeth age 25. Isaac was born outside Middlesex, Elizabeth was Middlesex-born.
Marriage Register info indicates that Thomas married Elizabeth Dobson (nee Higgins) in 1849 at St. Mary's, Ealing:
Elizabeth Higgins, spinster had married Isaac Doberson 20 Sep 1830 in the Parish of Hanwell.
Thomas & Elizabeth then reside in 1851 at The Ham, New Brentford: Age: 30; Head; Married; Barge Carter; born Chieveley, Berks. [Wife Elizabeth 34, Pottle Basket Maker, born Old Brentford, Middx].
Apr 1871 they are at 15 Sion Row, Brentford End, Isleworth, Middlesex, England. Thomas Dobson Age: 50; Head; Married; Labourer; born Baugust, Hants; wife Elizabeth 50, born Brentford, Midx. John added that Baughurst does actually fit with Chieveley as siblings were born there but family moved to Chieveley, Berks, 12 miles away. [The 1861 and 1871 censuses show some continuity in neighbours' names suggesting Thomas & Elizabeth were in the same property in both censuses]
Elizabeth has however hidden her true age from her second husband as she was born 1812, baptised St. Mary's, Ealing 1812. Higgins, Elizabeth, D. of John & Sarah. Baptized Feby 9; Born Jany 14 1812.
Elizabeth Dobson died 1879 & was buried in St. Mary the Virgin, Twickenham10 Feb 1879 - Elizabeth Dobson of Balmain's Buildings [Holly Road], aged 62. Her husband Thomas returns to birthplace Hermitage/Chieveley Berkshire working as a Baker with his widowed sister [a Baker/Grocer/ Shopkeeper] and dies 10 Jan 1915 aged 93.
John noted that, with the exception of Isaac's marriage certificate, the surname is consistently Dobson in census & BMD entries.
Next John looked at the fishmongering Dobsons who lived at the 54 High Street address in the 1851 and 1861 censuses:Top
Dobson family, fishmongersOn the 1851 census Thomas Dobison, Fishmonger at High Street, born Thames [Thame] Oxon is 36 with a wife Eliza aged 28 (born Brentford) & a daughter Sarah 18, also born Thames, Oxon (Sarah has to be from a previous marriage/partner as Eliza is too young to be mother).
FreeBMD Marriage Index, Apr-Jun 1842, Registration district: Brentford Vol 3, Page 20:
Eliza Bright / Thomas Dobinson [others couples also listed same batch]
(This marriage cannot be found on the Ancestry London Archive Parish images but there appear to be gaps in Hanwell & St George old Brentford for 1842).
And sure enough we also have a death registration
Deaths Oct-Dec 1841 DOBINSON Ann, Registration district Brentford, Vol 3, Page 11
But again no Parish Death Record, however surprisingly she may have been buried back at Thame, Oxfordshire as seems very co-incidental to also have this registration.
Ann Dobinson Deaths Oct-Dec 1841 Thame, Oxfordshire
Searches for Thomas in the 1841 census found a Thomas Dobbinson aged 25, a Hawker at Brentford End, Isleworth. With him is [likely wife] Ann aged 30 and daughter Sarah aged 9.
John located several newspaper articles relating to this family: the first, from the Windsor and Eton Express, 5 October 1844, recorded that 'Thomas Dobinson, who attends the [Windsor] fish market, was brought up charged with a violent assault on the police', following an altercation with his wife, near the market house steps, Windsor. He was fined 40 shillings and costs of 7s 6d.
Returning to census evidence, in 1861 Thomas Dobson, Fishmonger resides The Square/High Street, born Tame Oxon aged 50 with 2nd wife Eliza aged 39 (born Brentford).
In 28 May 1865 there is a burial in the new burial Ground in the Parish of Ealing of Eliza Dobson aged 46 of Old Brentford. The West London Observer of 3 June reported that Eliza Dobson was 44 years and her husband Thomas a fishmonger residing at Old Brentford. A post mortem took place and it was concluded she died from heart disease.
Then the Fishmonger remarries (again – 3rd wife) June 14th 1869 in St. Paul's, Old Brentford:
I did look for a Gunn to Lovegrove marriage and didn't find one.
I agree with John's conclusions: the Thomas, labourer, 19 was a different person to the fishmonger of the same name who lived in the same property - or very nearby - in 1851 and 1861. Looking at the third marriage of the fishmonger (above) two witnesses were named: Martha Bates and Joseph Finney. The Bates family included fishmongers and earlier generations came from Thame, Oxfordshire - the same place as Thomas Dobson, fishmonger. See Bates family tree, prepared by Elizabeth Thormod, for more detail. The marriage witness may be Martha Bates, nee Dobbison, who married Henry Bates in the 1820s.
Like John my searches for the Gunn/Lovegrove marriage were unsuccessful, but the following Rootschat census reference from 1851 suggests Elizabeth Lovegrove, nee Gunn, was originally married to Thomas Lovegrove:
At this point the two families, one of labourers, the other of fishmongers, have been documented. John then researched an earlier generation of his family, the labourers:Top
The familial link in the family of labourers?Having gone back a generation more I have been surprised that there is circumstantial evidence that Isaac Dobson, the deceased husband of Elizabeth Higgins, was Thomas's UNCLE!
Isaac was baptised 1805 in Hampstead Norris, Berkshire, same place as nephew Thomas and the burial in 6 Nov 1842 in St Lawrence, New Brentford of Isaac Dobson, aged 37 of New Brentford [1805-1842] matches.
The GRO Death Registration was not in Brentford:
There are no Death registrations for other Isaac Dobsons in London/Middlesex, indeed only 7 Isaac Dobsons (+similar & soundex surname) 1837-1915 and the other 6 can be eliminated by fact that death age is given and for the 3 of unknown age 1840s-50's one is in Berkshire in 1844 and the Berkshire parish burial records shows that to be an Isaac aged 5. The other 2 in London can be excluded by reference to the 1851 census and finding the corresponding guys nearby.
So why buried in Brentford & GRO registered in Westminster? Well his brother lived there.
If we accept that there is a possibility that Thomas married his Uncle's wife (a non blood relation) that was not officially permissible. An 1839 version of the Book of Common Prayer confirmed that the C15-16 rules were unchanged and it was forbidden to marry
Page published July 2016